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The Guardian reports that at the request of the UK, there will be an emergency UN Security Council meeting on Ukraine at 2:00 Eastern Time. The following information is taken from the Guardian's feed.

The Guardian quoted a Kremlin spokesman as saying that Putin had "not decided" on whether or not to send troops to Ukraine. However, two hours before this comment, CNN footage showed Russian tanks already in Crimea.

In the meantime, the Far Right, part of the coalition that overthrew Yanukovich, had this to say:

According to Ukrainian Pravda, Sector Right called on all its units to mobilise.

This is their statement:

“Being aware of all the dangers that are looming over the Ukrainian state, the headquarters of the Right Sector orderall its units to mobilise and arm, and depending on the specific situation to coordinate with the armed forces.
We remind all citizens of Ukraine regardless of nationality (including Russians ) that our struggle is anti-imperial , not Russophobe . Russian empire will be destroyed. Urge Resistance Movement Caucasus and all liberation movements in Russia to step up their activities.”

This crisis unfolded right as the US is preparing to engage in defense cuts, including lowering its Army levels to the lowest since World War II. The right wing noise machine here is already swinging into action, ridiculing Obama's defense cuts on Twitter at a time when the Russians are on the move. This is an obvious attempt to stoke Cold War imagery in an attempt to turn back the proposed defense cuts.

In the meantime, according to the Guardian's feed, the BBC is reporting:

According to the BBC, Refat Chubarov, the head of the Crimean Tatar Majlis (assembly) says he is calling on Tatars to stay at home and not form resistance units. “Literally hours remain until catastrophe,” he said to the Gazprom-owned Russian radio station Ekho Moskvy. Tatars make up about 12 percent of Crimea’s population and have sided with the anti-Yanukovych protesters - now government - in Kiev.
Let's hope not.

2:38 PM PT: Be sure to recommend Richard Lyons' diary here:
http://www.dailykos.com/...

2:39 PM PT: For more on right wing reactions to this crisis, check this diary out:
http://www.dailykos.com/...

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Comment Preferences

  •  in the meantime.... (17+ / 0-)

    Righties bash Pres. Obama for not using inflammatory rhetoric to
    squash Dictator Putin.
    lol -- they have NO solutions, hence - they bash Obama, whatever he does.

    "Tax cuts for the 1% create jobs." -- Republicans, HAHAHA - in China

    by MartyM on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 09:49:00 AM PST

  •  I have a Facebook "friend" in Ukraine. (18+ / 0-)

    Facebook suddenly became cool again!

    She just posted this:

    URGENT !!! IMURGENCY ! UKRAINE IS IN REAL DANGER! NO ‘LIKES’ MAXIMUM REPOST ANYWHERE YOU CAN IN ALL POSSIBLE DIRECTIONS AND COUNTRIES! AND ACTIONS!
    While all of you argue about “clarity”, “political positions” and excuse my language other bullshit, Russia already building armed forces on Crimea, and possibly planning huge armed atack on Ukraine, government does NOT suggest anything clear, Western countries are not ready with common view. NOW FOR EUROMAIDAN IS MOST IMPORTANT NOT TO LET RUSSIA , ALREADY SPEACHES MUST BE CHANGED TO STOP-RUSSIA!, NATO-PROTECT!, USA-DON’T LET OCCUPATION OF UKRAINE, THIS MUST BE DONE IMMIDEATLY – ON EUROMAIDAN NEXT TO EMBASSIES, IN USA IN EU, GREAT BRITAIN! PEOPLE – WAKE UP! ENEMY IS KNOCKING ON THE DOOR! IT IS MUCH SCARIES AND MUCH WORSE THEN YANUKOVICH – ITS RUSSIA! PEOPLE COME OUT TO OFFICES OF GOVERNMENT IN USA, EU, NATO, GREAT BRITAIN ! THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO TIME LEFT! ! !

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 09:49:22 AM PST

  •  Tatars are generally pro-Russian (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Marti

    to my understanding.

    "So listen, oh, Don't wait." Vampire Weekend.

    by Publius2008 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:01:59 AM PST

  •  No Comment (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, Naniboujou, The Marti

    http://www.economicpopulist.org

    by ManfromMiddletown on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:04:06 AM PST

  •  This makes me wonder (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DrTerwilliker, fladem

    what event will it be that finally discredits the UN. Hopefully it is less horrific than what discredited the League on Nations.

  •  You really can't blame the Russians (7+ / 0-)

    for defending the base of their Black Sea Fleet. The headquarters of the US Fifth Fleet is in Bahrain where there is a Shiite anti-government movement. To the best of my knowledge, the US does not support the Bahraini protesters.

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:15:34 AM PST

    •  Were the Bahraini protesters reaching out (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Azazello, tekno2600

      to the West? I don't think so. This is not going to be easy to blow off. Euromaidan, see the name, it means Euro Square. More Europe, less Russia. Are we really going to stand around and let them be smashed?

      We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

      by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:26:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You really can't blame Germany (10+ / 0-)

      for marching into the Sudentenland in support of their fellow German-speakers marooned there by the Versailles treaty. Surely, Mr. Hitler only wanted what was due him, no more, no less.

      •  That's a really bad analogy. (7+ / 0-)

        The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

        by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:29:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think it was sarc. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Azazello, tekno2600

          We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

          by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:35:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  if you think so (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Azazello

          you should explain why

          •  Why is the burden-of-proof on me ? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tekno2600

                 Anybody who knows any history at all would agree.

            The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

            by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:40:45 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  because you made the claim (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Azazello, Catte Nappe

              I know a fair amount of history and I'd like to know why you think that.

              •  Really ? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                patbahn

                OK, to begin with, the Russians are already in Crimea, have been forever. Not so the Wermacht in Czechoslovakia. See ?

                The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:57:15 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The Russians military was at a base. This would be (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Azazello, FG, Gator Keyfitz, Jay C, leevank

                  like if the US moved outside of Guantanamo and invaded Cuba or the British moved out of Gibraltar and invaded Spain (to protect the many British pensioners living in the South of Spain). Invading the neighboring country has nothing to do with "protecting" their base. No Ukrainian attacks on the base were even remotely imagined. Also, the Russian parliament voting to allow Putin to use military force throughout Ukraine has nothing to do with protecting a base. That's where the Sudetenland comparison becomes more appropriate.

                  Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                  by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:07:31 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't know what makes you so sure (0+ / 0-)

                    that this has nothing to do with their naval base. The analogy with Gitmo is apt though. Do you believe the US would not invade the island if Cubans threatened Gitmo ?

                    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                    by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:12:11 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Who threatened the Russian naval base? Links pls. (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Azazello, tekno2600, LiberalMegan, leevank
                      •  The Russians didn't lift a finger (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        FG

                        in Ukraine proper. They are moving into Crimea. I can think of no other reason for this.

                        The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                        by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:23:51 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Crimea is a part of Ukraine. It's like saying (7+ / 0-)

                          'Canadians didn't attack the America proper, they just invaded California'. Crimea is simply a part of Ukraine Russia already has troops in. It's also a lot more pro-Russian than the rest of the country. I would still appreciate the evidence of actual threats to Russian troops there.

                          •  Technically Crimea is an "autonomous republic," (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Jay C

                            the analogy with CA is not quite correct. The ouster of the pro-Russian government in Crimea would be an inherent threat to the Russian naval base. Again, consider the US and Bahrain. Would the US allow an unfriendly government to seize power there ?

                            The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                            by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:33:09 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Autonomous republic is basically like a state in (5+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Azazello, FG, LiberalMegan, leevank, hmi

                            the US. Although, in this case, Crimea is a self-governing state within Ukrainian territory. It is clear that no direct threats were made against the Russian naval base. Putin is the only one making threats and creating a military crisis.

                            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                            by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:38:32 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Whatever. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ExpatGirl

                            The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                            by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:40:33 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But that the thing. Government of Crimea (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Azazello, leevank

                            was not pro-Russian. Russian troops captured the Crimean parliament and forced a new, pro-Russian government to be formed.

                            And 'not allowing an unfriendly government to form there' is very different from a direct threat. Does it mean that when US-friendly LDP lost an election in Japan US should have invaded Japan and overthrown the DPJ government?

                          •  Just looking at Wikipedia, (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FG, patbahn, Johnny the Conqueroo

                            it seems like the "Party of Regions" has been winning elections in Crimea for some time. I really don't understand the knee-jerk anti-Putin sentiment shared by so many Americans. I merely point out that the Russians are doing what any other country would do in their situation. Maybe you're right, maybe tanks will roll into Kiev as in Hungary in '56 or Prague in '68. We'll see. I don't miss the Cold War and do not feel threatened by Vladimir Putin. Good day.

                            The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                            by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:59:53 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Party of Regions is not pro-Russian. It's based in (0+ / 0-)

                            eastern Ukraine and represents the interests of its residents (well, and some local billionaires). It was running Crimea for over a decade. Its government was overthrown and a new government is headed by an explicitly pro-Russian party that got 4% in the last local election.

                        •  They voted to authorize an invasion of Ukraine (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Azazello, leevank

                          this morning...although clearly they already began even before that. Putin doesn't wait for votes, even though he knows they will (and did) unanimously rubber stamp his decision.

                          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                          by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:35:18 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  The government of Cuba is quite hostile to the (6+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Azazello, DRo, Timaeus, patbahn, Al Abama, leevank

                      US base at Guantanamo, but that doesn't justify an invasion of Cuba. The Spanish government has long maintained that the British do not have the right to stay in Gibraltar either and have engaged in many efforts to try to force them out. But, the British have not responded by invading Spain. The Ukrainians, on the other hand, did nothing to suggest they were threatening the Russian base.

                      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                      by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:41:55 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Russia sent no troops to Kiev. (0+ / 0-)

                        The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                        by Azazello on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:43:56 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  and Kiev send no troops to Russia...but Russia (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          DRo, leevank

                          has authorized an invasion and has massed over 150,000 soldiers on the border. Putin is provoking armed conflict.

                          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                          by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:06:55 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  the spanish missed that chance in WW2 (0+ / 0-)

                        i never understood why the Nazis and Franco didn't force the brits out of Gibraltar.

                        they could have then starved the british 8th army in egypt, the australians at Tobruk, British forces in Malta
                        and made the med a german lake.

                        that would have stretched the war out, and perhaps forced the brits to negotiate, or allowed the nazis the strength
                        to go sally forth and attack atlantic convoys

                        •  There have been border closures and other (0+ / 0-)

                          restrictions aimed at forcing the Brits out during the 50's and 60's. Now, as EU members, Britain and Spain seem to have negotiated a settlement to basically allow things to stay as they are.

                          The German did consider plans to seize Gibraltar, but Franco was not supportive. He know that Spain wasn't really ready for war and perhaps even sensed that the Axis powers may not be on the winning side. Overall, neutrality was probably wiser for Spain than sharing in Germany and Italy's defeat.

                          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                          by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 05:42:02 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  with the med (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tekno2600

                            Germany would command North Africa and perhaps even take the Suez canal.

                            if they did that they cut the Empire in half.

                            the Swiss allowed german troops to transit to italy,
                            the spanish could have allowed German commandos to transit to Gibraltar.

                          •  Yes. Neutral countries often play a complex (0+ / 0-)

                            double game. At times, Franco definitely showed sympathies toward the other fascist regimes. But, I guess when it came to allowing direct attack and probably subjecting Spanish cities to British and American bombing as a result, that was a bit farther than he was willing to go. On the other hand, had the Germans really worked to cultivate capabilities in Spain, perhaps Franco would have been emboldened. I think Hitler was often stingy with his allies. He could have done a much better job coordinating with them.

                            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                            by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 07:46:36 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  what i hear was Franco wanted concessions (0+ / 0-)

                            that the NAzi's didn't want to pay early and when they did
                            want to pay the price kept rising.

                  •  you mean those cuban invasions we did do (0+ / 0-)

                    like

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/...

                    In the following 20 years the United States repeatedly intervened militarily in Cuban affairs: 1906 - 1909, 1912 and 1917 - 1922. In 1912 U.S. forces were sent to quell protests by Afro-Cubans against perceived discrimination.
                    and the Bay of Pigs.
                •  The Germans were in Danzig (0+ / 0-)

                  before the invasion of Poland.

                  The situations are identical.

          •  Yes, sarcasm (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Azazello, fladem

            So is this:

            There has been a profound disturbance of international confidence. In these circumstances the problem before Europe and the United States…is their most urgent duty to direct their attention…how best to restore this shaken confidence, how to maintain the rule of law in international affairs, how to seek peaceful solutions to questions that continue to cause anxiety. Of these the one which is necessarily most present to many minds is that which concerns the relations between the Government of Ukraine and the Russian minority in that country; and it is probable that a solution of this question, if it could be achieved, would go far to re-establsh a sense of stability over an area much wider than that immediately concerned.

            We have acknowledged that in present circumstances the ability of the U.N. to fulfil all the functions originally contemplated for it is reduced; but this is not to be interpreted as meaning that we would in no circumstances intervene as a member of the Security Council for the restoration of peace or the maintenance of international order if circumstances were such as to make it appropriate for them to do so

            Where peace and war are concerned, legal obligations are not alone involved, and, if war broke out, it would be unlikely to be confined to those who have assumed such obligations. It would be quite impossible to say where it would end and what Governments might become involved. The inexorable pressure of facts might well prove more powerful than formal pronouncements, and in that event it would be well within the bounds of probability that other countries, besides those which were parties to the original dispute, would almost immediately become involved.

            With (halfhearted) apologies to Neville Chamberlain. Original here: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/...
        •  Nope (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Al Abama, leevank

          at the end of the day the cases are exactly the same.  Putin is claiming an ethnic minority of Russians are in trouble, so HE INVADES ANOTHER COUNTRY.

          See Hitler in Czech. and Poland.

    •  There's a big difference... (0+ / 0-)

      ...between the US-Bahrain relationship and that between Moscow/St. Petersburg and Kiev.

      It's a difference of about 1,000+ years of history or so, a history throughout which Kiev has historically been Moscow's first target whenever the Russians started getting imperial ambitions.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:46:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  we give Bahrain and the saudi's all sorts of (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Azazello

      paramilitary weapons.

      and crowd control tools

    •  They've done more than defend their fleet. (0+ / 0-)

      The US has also not invaded Bahrain.

  •  Russia is going to go in and take complete control (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hmi, Al Abama

    the break up of the Soviet Union is one thing..

    but the Ukraine???

    Russia will take it over with mass amounts of soldiers and tanks..

    There is simply no other course of action acceptable to them. And they will not tolerate any interference from the West or otherwise.

    Too bad it is going this way, but the course of action from here on out looks pretty clear. And it isn't going to end well for the Ukraine..Russia is just not going to let it go any other way.

    •  Russia absorbing Ukraine would be comparable... (6+ / 0-)

      to the United States occupying Mexico...doable but extremely expensive.

      But (see: Iraq) powerful countries are wont to do stupid things from time to time. I guess we'll see.

      •  It's good to bring up how big Ukraine is. (4+ / 0-)

        If you don't know, it's pretty big. Bigger than Spain.

        We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

        by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:07:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  yes.. the Germans learned that in WWII (0+ / 0-)

          full of resources they coveted..

          Ukraine, Crimea..

          waay to strategically important and vast for the Russians to tolerate too much bedlam there. They might suppress this with other means sine they no doubt have many networks to operate within the country, but if push comes to shove..they are going to shove.. "all in" on this one. the US and others better not mistake how far the Russians will go. I can think of no other area of higher strategic importance to the Russians than the Crimea & the rest of the Ukraine..

          •  But it's not their country, that's the catch (0+ / 0-)

            Also, I don't think Russia can impose its opinion on Ukraine at large at a cost it can sustain in the long run.

            Any more than it could maintain suzerainty over the former Soviet Empire.

            Russia is a country whose population base is collapsing while many neighbor states just don't have that same difficulty. It can't revive its old empire no matter how hard it tries: it's just not powerful enough anymore.

            And no one will want to be cozy with Russia ever again if Putin overplays his hand in Ukraine.

            And this might be the darker side of what's going on here: the West, sacrificing Ukraine for a while as a kind of briar patch - Russia's Iraq, if you will, only much bigger and costlier in relative terms - that will accelerate the final disintegration of the Federation.

            And I am sure paranoids on the Russian side of things are wondering that same thing because just because they are hypersensitive doesn't mean they can't be right.

            Wheels within wheels here. Games within games.

            I vote we let the Russians exhaust themselves...or snap out of it themselves. I see no reason to help stir the pot with our presence....because in cold calculating terms our  interests are served by Russia digging itself out of Crimea... or digging itself a grave in Ukraine.

            But countries are more than just Machiavellian rational state actors, even the USA, and I suspect we'll want to do something we imagine is "the right thing to do", and later wish we hadn't.

            We'll see.

        •  Just shy of 46 million people. Russia: 144MM or so (0+ / 0-)

          The land doesn't take pot shots at you...unless you're Napoleon in wintertime. Then it does. :)

          •  Russia could not occupy it (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cskendrick, ManfromMiddletown

            They don't have enough troops.  The Ukrainians could mound an effective guerrilla war, any outside assistance would help.  

            I see this as more of a German/Polish/Romanian/Hungarian/Turkish issue than a US issue.  We should support our allies but they don't need American direction.  At most send some humanitarian aid.  

            All I care is the Ukrainian ultra nationalists don't end up in power at the end.  

            The real loosers will be the people of Ukraine regardless of what happens.  

            I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

            by DavidMS on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:04:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  This could very well backfire on Putin. The (8+ / 0-)

      Ukrainians have suffered Russian invasions, pogroms, and mass starvations in the past. It is part of their history. Even if they can't directly fight the Russians at every turn, they will resist however they can. At the very least, this will entrench and inflame opinion against Putin in a way that far exceeds anything he has seen so far. Even right wing Ukrainians will hate Putin. Only Russian separatists and extremists will support him, and they are not the majority of the country.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:16:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yeah.. Stalin took their land.. and on and on.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tekno2600, jplanner

        lots of history there..

        this could be very bloody..

        but I suspect the Russians have lots of internal networks.. and.. they have overwhelming brute force at their disposal..

        They aren't backing down here - quite the contrary - they are going to ramp up as far as they need to go. Brutality is part of the history there.. Putin will not hesitate if he feels he must.

        •  Maybe so, but is Putin prepared to be Stalin? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AnotherAmericanLie

          Even if he wins at first, he may find so much hostility in the population that he is far worse off than before. There are some people who just would not tolerate another Russian invasion. Unless Putin is prepared to create another Holodomor, and starve another 10 million Ukrainians to death, he will find that at least 80% of the country's population will never accept him (or his puppet) as their ruler.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:31:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Putin is prepared to do whatever it takes (0+ / 0-)

            if he feels it necessary.

            He will look for other ways but in the end.. if push-comes-to-shove, the next chapter in the history books over there will be rather ugly even in relative terms for that part of the world.

            •  I don't think so. This could be another Vietnam / (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Hammerhand

              Afghanistan experience. If he's not careful, his internal opposition will grow in Russia and he'll lose influence in the Russian Federation. He will be marginalized internationally, and people might start to question if he is leading Russia toward success or failure on the world stage. He faces some real risks if he plays this the wrong way.

              Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

              by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:13:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I think Putin is FULLY prepared to be Stalin! (0+ / 0-)

            I strongly suspect that he admires Stalin. He is, after all, a former KGB agent who spent five years serving the KGB in the former East Germany.

            Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

            by leevank on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 03:00:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Lots of right-wingers in Russia though. (0+ / 0-)

        I was translating Tweets and somebody said something about the damn Ukrainians not learning the language. That cracked me up. They're the same everywhere.

        Is there a Twitter app for translating? I'm old and I don't know these things.

        We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

        by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:39:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Holodomor (0+ / 0-)

      flashed through my mind with Russians going in and taking over. I am not accusing them of genocide at all, just to be clear...just the act of Russian forces going in conjures the picture, at least for me. Fortunately the people who lived through that are mostly gone.

    •  There are other courses available to... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, Lawrence

      Putin, besides military.   Ukraine highly depends on Russian energy.

      Rising gas prices decided by Moscow could lead, at any moment, to the country’s collapse.

      A new twist could emerge soon in the affair: as of March 1, Russian gas giant Gazprom will have the possibility to renegotiate its contract with Ukraine’s state oil and gas company, Naftogaz...

      When diplomatic relations between Ukraine and Russia are good, so are prices...

      Russia provides most of the gas consumed in Ukraine — it is Russian gas’ largest importer — and the Russian government has often been accused of using its neighbor’s dependency on gas as a means of political pressure.

      As of today, Ukraine owes about $4 billion to Gazprom.

      Putin doesn't necessarily have to take on the risks of sending his military into the rest of Ukraine.  He has other ways to manipulate things.

    •  And if they do so (0+ / 0-)

      They will turn the Ukraine into Afghanistan Part II back when they were the Soviet Union. The Russians will simply bleed even more. Ukrainians of all political stripes will make them pay a very heavy price that I'm not sure will be viable politically in Moscow

  •  can't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    We can't control what happens there--nor should we.  Rarely has the US successfully intervened anywhere.  Do we want another Iraq--another Vietnam?  This is a tragedy, this is our concern, it's just not anything we have the right medicine to cure.  Crimea is really Russian, Ukraine really needs Russian gas--as does Europe.  The evil empire controls all the right switches for power, not for justice.  Colonialism destroys long after the liberation.  How many times has this happened? will happen?  People are the abused pawns of the powerful--be it colonialism or unchecked capitalism.  

    Actions speak louder than petitions.

    by melvynny on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:26:12 AM PST

  •  I'm generally not in favor of big defense cuts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PowWowPollock, dizzydean

    (or cuts of any kind quite frankly) since I think the whole debt/deficit things is massively overblown and we should be stimulating all parts of our economy to create jobs, and yes that includes defense-related jobs/economic activity.

    So, I tend to agree with the republicans as far as not wanting the cuts...of course the reasoning, and the hypocrisy by which they get there is beyond ridiculous and morally and logically repugnant.

    We should be spending more across the board until the economy enters a full/real recovery...and yes, I'm not someone who believes we shouldn't be engaged in the world...the fact that we've done so poorly due to Bush's craziness does not mean we should now pull back under much more adult leadership.

    •  I think most of us would like to see more of (0+ / 0-)

      a guns and butter trade-off than cutting just because of the deficit.  There's a lot of wastage in the DOD that could be used elsewhere....

      To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

      by dizzydean on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:35:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  i'm thinking (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jplanner

    my globe will soon be obsolete

  •  Putin is covering up his own crime (0+ / 0-)

    Obama should do nothing  that involve the military ,what  he should do is open up the   oil reserve , oil that   the government have stored in  cavern and flood the market with oil  and drive down the price of oil ,costing Russia billion of dollars in revenue ,Russia military is  in shamble ,half of them  are drunks and the other half is  about too   go Awol,

  •  This crisis unfolded right as the US is preparing (0+ / 0-)

    for defense cuts.

    Wow, that's great timing... ...  ....

    What's the difference between the Federal government and organized crime? One's legally sanctioned.

    by FrankenPC on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 10:48:01 AM PST

    •  That's completely irrelevant. There's nothing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cany, ExpatGirl

      additional US defense spending over the next decade could do to stop this situation right now. Imagining that we could intervene in Ukraine is like thinking we could invade China to settle a dispute in Hunan.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:20:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Putin is just waiting (0+ / 0-)

      for the day that Russia spends 10% of NATO on the military to start invading all the NATO countries.

      /snark

      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

      by jfern on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 02:02:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where are Obama's advisors??? (0+ / 0-)

    He needs to get rid of the Wall Street flacks and get some real experienced diplomats to advise him - before he goes spouting off threats that make him look stupid.

    Russia's intent so far is to protect their strategic military interest in that area, and most of the people of the Crimea region haven't been adverse to that.  We would undoubtedly do the same thing, if one of our foreign military installations was being threatened.  When will our politicians (and "diplomats") stop their foolish saber rattling?  Vladimir Vladimirovich (a former KGB agent) is not going to be cowed by empty threats.  Don't bait the Bear when we have no intention of acting. So foolish.

    •  Kerry knows what he is doing (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe, jplanner, pamelabrown, cany

      these things take time and are best done out of the public eye....

      To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

      by dizzydean on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:33:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  One would suspect (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dizzydean, DRo, cany, ExpatGirl

      The pertinent advisers have been in and out of the Oval Office all day, or on the phones from their offices at the State Dept. and the UN. And nary a Wall Street flack among them.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:41:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some people seem to believe he needs to put (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ExpatGirl, Catte Nappe

        these discussions on speakerphone. Gripes me. That's not how we work diplomacy.

        It's the same drum the right beats; "...he's doing nothing."

        Sheesh.

        202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

        by cany on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 01:17:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Another post from Ukraine. (7+ / 0-)
    We did not kill any Russian citizen, have no piece of their land, no troops on their territory, not seized them. We just became a free country for a week. And that was enough to Russia declared war against us by the unanimous decision of the Council of Federation and the total support of the population! For that they hate us so? For freedom? For dissent? For that we have such a fierce and popular hatred that the war is justified in the eyes of the Russians? March 1, 2014 year ...?

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:18:44 AM PST

  •  2014 or 1914? The ghosts of the past are still (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DavidMS, Mike Kahlow

    with us.  Not to say that this will spark another world war, but the situation could easily deteriorate into something much uglier than it already is if the leadership of the world powers are not careful.  

    I recently read The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914 (Harper, 2013) by Christopher Clark of Cambridge University. Clark makes a point of showing how internal issues in each of the powers combined with a local situation that escalated into a bigger conflict (with Russia being guilty of mobilizing first and bringing about the escalation).  In each case, the power misjudged each other and let political issues at home goad them into what turned out to be foolish actions later.

    While we watch what is happening in Ukraine, Shinzo Abe said this summer that the relations between Japan and China reminded him of 1914.  

    As an aside, Clark's book is very readable and has maybe the best writing on the political situation in pre-war Austria-Hungary I think I have seen.  

    To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

    by dizzydean on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:28:26 AM PST

  •  Contra all this hysteria that seems to be ramping (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, Paleo, dpinzow, shaketheworld

    up here- here is my (admittedly non-expert) opinion.
    1) Putin has no grand plan here. He is improvising as events move along. He probably didn't see Yanukovych folding his tent so quickly, and now he has to see what he can get out of this mess.
    2)Putin is not going to invade Ukraine. That would involve hundreds of thousands of troops that would be tied down in a guerrilla  war for decades, sort a like hmm, the country escapes me at this time....
    3) The Crimea is low hanging fruit for the Russians. The majority of the citizens are Russian speaking, it was part of Russia for centuries before, and Russian military units are there already by treaty.
    4) There is nothing that the US, or France, Great Britain, or Germany can do militarily to stop Putin in the Crimea. We do not have the forces, or the will to stop what is a regional problem. And that is NOT Obama's fault.
    5) Even the Crimea has the potential to blow up in Putin's face. The Ukrainian minority may try to wage a asymmetrical war against the Russians to make the grab as costly as possible, and it may be another festering sore on Russia's a**.

    Necessity is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-- Wm.Pitt the Younger

    by JeffSCinNY on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:35:00 AM PST

    •  Putin already HAS invaded Ukraine! (0+ / 0-)

      There are Russian troops occupying most of Crimea, which is part of Ukraine. They're not just in their bases, they're occupying airports and the capital.

      Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

      by leevank on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 03:04:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ukraine in NATO? The Case Against (0+ / 0-)

    Some insight from 2011 - it's a short pdf, 4 pages, so don't be afraid.

    http://nowaukraina.org/...

    Ukraine in NATO? The Case Against
    The first objection is that endemic political instability makes post Soviet Ukraine a poor candidate for membership in an alliance of stable liberal democracies. Less a nation than a territory with a spectrum of national identity, Ukraine presents eastern provinces in which a linguistic Russian ethnicity is dominant as well as the widespread use of Russian as a first language among non-ethnic Russians and western provinces in which a linguistic Ukrainian ethnicity and Greek Catholic religiosity is dominant. Perhaps Ukraine might someday become an unhappy but functional union decades in the future, perhaps an oversize Belgium. In the near term, however, political instability is the disorder of the day. The embarrassing televised rioting in the Ukrainian Rada on December 14, 2010 was yet another reminder of the almost norm-less struggle for political power between parliamentarians of parties representing different regions of the country. Brawling in parliament flags the sort of crippling political instability that makes it a poor candidate for an alliance of consolidated liberal democracies.

    The collapse of governing coalitions in 2010 and 2008 signals something other than the ordinary inter-party competition and personal ambition for power in a liberal democracy. Instead, Victor Yushchenko, Yuliia Tymoshenko and Viktor Yanukovych instead wage a three-way struggle that reflects fundamental disagreement over the nature of the state and the nature of the nation that it would rule. Beyond bitter accusations of corruption and vote fraud lie even more dangerous efforts to change the constitutional regime. Whether Ukraine is a presidential or a parliamentary system is itself contested.

    reformatted for readability

    About the site:

    "New Ukraine" addressed to politicians, local government officials, academics and students, but most of all, it extends the offer of Krakow and Przemysl school ukrainoznawczej (in collaboration with colleagues from foreign institutions). Scripture create dynamically and are therefore changes in the internal time of its construction. We do not avoid polemical articles, as long as the standards remain the intellectual and substantive dispute describe a road / wilderness Ukrainian discourse. From our readers expect criticisms of the "New Ukraine", evaluation form and the substance of published materials. In order to improve the quality of writing, these comments will be carefully analyzed and taken into account as far as recognition in consecutive issues. We invite you to read and cooperation.

    Jaroslaw Moklak

    That last paragraph is via Google translate. I hope it makes some sense.

    I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

    by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:16:59 PM PST

    •  Scheduled: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Just Bob, Lawrence

      NATO will now meet at the behest of Latvia and Lithuania.

      Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

      by DRo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:21:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Link? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

        by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:26:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  .. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Just Bob, Lawrence

          Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

          by DRo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:32:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DRo

            I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

            by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:33:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Article 4 calls for consultations (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DRo

            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty, requiring member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack, was invoked for the first and only time after the 11 September 2001 attacks,[5] after which troops were deployed to Afghanistan under the NATO-led ISAF. The organization has operated a range of additional roles since then, including sending trainers to Iraq, assisting in counter-piracy operations[6] and in 2011 enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya in accordance with U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973. The less potent Article 4, which merely invokes consultation among NATO members has been invoked four times: once by Turkey in 2003 over the Iraq War, twice by Turkey in 2012 over the Syrian civil war after the downing of an unarmed Turkish F-4 reconnaissance jet and after a mortar was fired at Turkey from Syria,[7] and once by Lithuania in 2014 during the Russian invasion of Ukraine.[8]
            http://euobserver.com/...
            Lithuania's FM Linkevicius has said Russia's decision to deploy forces in Ukraine means "Nato, art. 4 becomes valid," referring to article 4 of the Nato treaty. The article says Nato members must meet for consultations if "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened."
            I don't blame Lithuania for feeling threatened, but bare in mind that Ukraine isn't a member of NATO.

            I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

            by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:40:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  *bear in mind* n/t (0+ / 0-)

              I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

              by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:45:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Remember (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Just Bob, ManfromMiddletown, DRo

              Lithuania has a historic link with the NW of Ukraine. It also currently holds the Presidency of the EU.

              "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

              by Lib Dem FoP on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:50:32 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes. There was once a time... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DRo

                when Lithuania was huge. Josh Marshall is on a roll.
                http://talkingpointsmemo.com/...

                22 Maps That Explain The Centuries-Long Conflict In Ukraine
                If a picture is worth a thousand words, those 22 maps present us with a brief but comprehensive history.

                I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

                by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 01:01:36 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Per Guardian (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Just Bob
                  Ukraine has asked NATO to look at all ways to protect its territorial integrity. Foreign Minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked NATO for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.
                  A request had been made to NATO to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said.

                  Reuters

                  I don't know hat not being a member means.
                  Are they obliged to help?
                  Also, don't we have agreement to protect for giving up Nuclear?

                  Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

                  by DRo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 01:13:34 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  More thoughtful discussion from Josh Marshall (6+ / 0-)

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:27:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anyone remember this? (2+ / 0-)

    http://www.theguardian.com/...

    Just a week or so ago.  But then the "demonstrators" blew up the deal while the west cheered and gloated.  Think maybe they'd like to have the deal back?

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:19:50 PM PST

  •  Putin is hitting the bufffet... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whizdom

    ...five minutes before closing, and piling as much on his plate as he can before they shut off the lights. He'll get Crimea, and his naval base, but I don't see a full scale invasion coming out of this. There's no real advantage to the trillion he would spend waging an unsustainable ground incursion against a shadow guerrilla army that has popular support.

    The United States has the best trained, best equipped, most advanced military in the history of human existence, and we fought a bloody stalemate against mostly illiterate goat herders with RPGs. If Putin is dumb enough to try it against the Ukrainians, it will end him and the strategic sphere of influence the Russian federation has been so carefully crafting.

    I've seen some hardboiled eggs in my time, but you're about twenty minutes

    by harrylimelives on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:31:21 PM PST

  •  Here's how I seen things playing out. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Betty Pinson

    Putin makes his grab for the Crimea. Since there is no counter balancing force there to stop him there is nothing we will do militarily, but some sanctions will be imposed.
    Things will "calm down" relatively speaking, but the eastern provinces of Ukraine will still be restive and Putin will encourage Russian nationalists to destabilize the situation, with an eye to doing a "soft" annexation of those provinces. Again there is little we can do militarily to stop this, but if we support Ukraine economically and politically we may be able to ward off the worst results of this situation.

    Necessity is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-- Wm.Pitt the Younger

    by JeffSCinNY on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:32:19 PM PST

  •  For those interested in cutting through the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, Mike Kahlow, whizdom

    propaganda, here's a great article:

    http://www.nybooks.com/...

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" Voltaire.

    by JWK on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 01:22:24 PM PST

  •  It's really worrying about the neo-fascist that (0+ / 0-)

    roaming the streets in Kiev and are even part of the new government there. It's getting ugly.
    Russia and the "west" should unite and press Ukraine to create some unity government where everybody can feel safe. But it will never happen.

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